From Toxic to Thriving: Evolving Your Culture With Miriam Dicks
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
Are the challenges in your nonprofit growing pains or signs of deeper issues? With a New Year, we have the opportunity to reflect on what is working and what is not! If we don't address the roots of operational dysfunction, our mission is at risk.
In today’s episode, we’re exploring how the heart and soul of our work – our culture – plays a huge role in our success. We're discussing how nurturing the right environment can make your nonprofit more effective, scalable, and fundable.
On this episode of The Small Nonprofit, we're talking with Miriam Dicks, owner of 180 Management Group. Miriam has over two decades of operational management and consulting experience. She brings her insights to the operational challenges facing our sector. From the perils of toxic workplace cultures to the smart outsourcing of HR functions, Miriam opens up about what truly can move the needle for small nonprofits.
Don’t forget to become a supporter of our show!
Key Episode Highlights:
Mutual Accountability: Leadership isn't about overseeing; it's about being a role model. Just like any team member, Miriam emphasizes the importance of holding leaders accountable. This isn't about control; it's about everyone striving for their best.
Embracing Change: Heard the phrase, "We've always done it this way"? It's a common barrier but often masks the real issue – change management. Miriam shares that recognizing the need for change is just the first step. The real game-changer is sustaining it.
Culture Eats Strategy for Lunch: Change is about shifting culture. We will explore why a healthy organizational culture is non-negotiable. We will also discuss how it can make or break your strategic efforts.
Smart Operations for Small Teams: Think your small team can't achieve big things? Think again! Miriam discusses how automation and strategic outsourcing can dramatically increase your capacity without expanding your team.
The Long Game in Decision Making: Miriam emphasizes that strategic decisions made today will have long-term implications. She encourages nonprofit leaders to think ahead, invest in the right resources, and dare to be trailblazers.
Don’t forget to become a supporter of our show!
Watch this episode on Youtube:
Links and Resources:
Connect with Miriam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/miriampdicks
Website: https://www.180managementgroup.com/
Connect with Maria on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mariario/
Support the show: https://www.buzzsprout.com/208666/supporters/new
Transcript:
00:00:00 Miriam: We, as leaders, should role, to model our role, like a model, what good leadership looks like, what it looks like to be held accountable. So it shouldn't be just that, you know, oh, I'm going to hold you accountable because you're my staff member, but I'm also held accountable. Like this is not just about me having control over staff. It's about all of us being held accountable so that we can do our best work. And I do feel like that's part of the issue too. So if you have, like a high turnover and you have staff members who say, well, you know, there are unfair practices here where I can't get away with anything, but I can see management, they're doing anything they want to do. That's part of modeling, right? And so, no, none of us can do whatever we want to do. We all have a role to play in the organization and we all have to be held accountable and being able to be a role model, to model that behavior, I think is vitally important for senior leadership.
00:00:52 Maria: Hi friends, ever wondered how you could turn your big ideas into results? I'm Maria Rio, your go-to guide for helping small nonprofits have real-world impacts. Together let's reimagine a better sector, tackle systemic issues, and yes, raise some serious cash! Welcome back to The Small Nonprofit, the podcast where your passion meets action.
00:01:23 Maria: Hi friends, welcome back to The Small Nonprofit Podcast. Today I'm joined by someone special all the way down from South Carolina. Miriam, I'd love for you to introduce yourself to our audience and just tell them a little bit about what you do, why you do it, how you got to doing that, all that good stuff.
00:01:40 Miriam: Well, hello everyone. My name is Miriam Dicks and I am the owner of 180 Management Group, a boutique operations management consulting firm based in Greenville, South Carolina. I've been doing this work in this capacity for the last, oh my gosh, we'll be 10 years old in March of 2024. So it's been quite the journey. I got started in operations management and consulting maybe 20 years ago. Working with healthcare organizations in the mergers and acquisitions space, helping to bring in smaller organizations under the umbrella of a larger organization, which really gave me an eye for going into a company or organization and understanding how they work so that we could make that transition as smooth as possible.
00:02:25 Miriam: So I was able to look at, you know, IT software systems and staffing and, you know, financials and all sorts of things that helped me really to identify what makes an organization really exceptional. And so having had that experience, it was COVID that really brought me into the nonprofit space when nonprofit organizations were really trying to figure out how it is that they could work in this remote environment and still provide the good work and good services that they were providing prior to COVID.
00:03:00 Miriam: And so there was a space, I was told this morning when talking to a client that I'm sort of a unicorn in the space where most nonprofit consultants, they're focused on a very specific area like, you know, fundraising or strategy or maybe even communications and marketing. But for us, we want to see that you are operating efficiently. And so we're looking at your strategic plan to understand whether or not your practices line up with your strategy so that you can meet your mission.
00:03:27 Miriam: And that's the work that we do. We've been doing that for, again, almost 10 years, I'd say four years in a nonprofit space, 10 years in the for-profit small business arena. And we really enjoy it. I feel like it's a ministry to those who we work with because nonprofit leaders are often stretched thin. And they're needing that support, that extra support to get them through whatever they're going through and to the finish line. So that's what we do and so excited to do it.
00:03:55 Maria: I kind of love your niche because it's broader than other niches like strategic planning or fundraising, X, Y, and Z, but it's less common to find a consultant that focuses on just operations, even though just operations touches every aspect of the organization. So it's a really interesting niche and I'm really excited to have you share some really juicy facts with us, get information here today. I was wondering what are some maybe common, but not as obvious issues that you see in operations across the nonprofits that you've worked with?
00:04:31 Miriam: Well, I would say this is common. And even though you may hear this a lot, it's still not so obvious. So one of the common issues, and I'm gonna phrase it like this, we've always done it this way, right? That's common, but what's not so obvious about it is change, the need for change management. So even if an organization realizes that they really could use some change, right? We could use a different way of getting something done. We could use a new software platform. We could use, you know, maybe different, you know, maybe we have more policy and procedure around a certain particular process or that we need to have, but it's the managing of change that tends to go falls by the wayside, right?
00:05:13 Miriam: Cause we can always talk about the different strategies and approaches and we just put it on paper and we're ready to go. But then what happens six months, nine months, 12 months later, are we still managing that change? And that's where I think most nonprofits struggle. And it's not because folks don't want to change. It's the resources, it's the timing, it's the distractions, it's the changing in the environment that make change so difficult to maintain. And so that's sort of one of the issues I think I see most often is, yes, we want to change. We know we need to because we've always done it this way. But how do we maintain change?
00:05:52 Maria: So do you see people like, try to make the change or, and not be able to like maintain it or they don't even try because we've always done it this way and I don't want to change and I'm scared.
00:06:02 Miriam: Well, I do find that people want to change. It's just the amount of change that they can actually sustain, right? And some of that has to do with manpower. So if we don't have enough people and that's the part of the, you know, when we work with clients, we talk about what are the manpower needs for maintaining this change or even just starting the change. And if there's a new initiative, a new program or a new grant funding, government funding coming out, then sometimes our focus strays away from what we're trying to accomplish with the change and we revert back to doing what we've always done.
00:06:35 Miriam: So I don't think it's an issue where people don't want to change. It's a focus issue. It's like, squirrel, wait, wait, wait, come back. Let's bring it back in. What are we trying to accomplish here? And that's what throws most of the projects off a little bit. But that's where we come in and we provide some of that structure, change management technique to get our clients over the finish line.
00:07:01 Maria: I guess that's why so many strategic plans just live on a shelf instead of actually get implemented, right?
00:07:06 Miriam: Yep, yep. And I will say another issue, and I think that this issue is common. Gosh, and I'll give you some juicy tidbits here. So lack of finance professionals is a common issue within our space. I was working with a client not too long ago, and they told me that they had someone that was like a director of finance for their organization. And they didn't know that anything was wrong per se until the auditors came back and said, Hey, we're not getting any information from your finance person. And he started to dig into, well, what is the finance person doing? And realized that that person wasn't doing their job.
00:07:43 Miriam: But when they got confronted, they went ahead and resigned because they'd already found a new job. And when they left, they realized that they just were left in a really bad position where the person was not doing the work, hiding the work, covering up, not doing the work. And now they still don't have a complete audit. And so, part of the challenge is, if you're not a finance professional, how do you hold someone accountable who is, if you don't quite know what their work is or what they should be doing, right? Because you don't know what you don't know.
00:08:13 Miriam: And having some systems in place where you can hold accountable those who have roles, who are very technical in their expertise is vitally important as an ED or a CEO because you have to make sure that you're holding everyone accountable, even if you don't have that particular expertise. We got to find a way to do that. And so finance professionals who are really good at what they do, I heard someone say this morning, there are a lot of people out there who just kind of fill in the role and they aren't good at it.
00:08:44 Maria: Yeah. You know, I really like that accountability piece because we've seen it so many times where, you know, the finance person, the ED is getting away with fraud, right? Or even the board chair or whoever, right, [who are in] important positions or getting away with fraud or mismanagement of funds or, you know, telling the finance person to do some creative accounting so they look better. And there's no one to catch those errors until it's much, much, much too late. So until, like you're having to look at, like staff layoffs or closing programs, like no one catches them. So it's hard because they get why any day might not have that expertise. You can't be, you know, an expert in everything.
00:09:27 Miriam: Right.
00:09:27 Maria: But having no financial experience on the board or, you know, checks and balances can lead to really huge problems.
00:09:33 Miriam: And I do think that the, you know, making sure there's an accountability structure there. So for example, when it comes to our leadership and just the accountability pieces, we should have some kind of rubric, some kind of metric that we're measuring performance by. And just because you are the CFO or the COO, you have a high ranking position doesn't mean that you are exempt from having some sort of metrics to evaluate your performance. And most of the times when folks are not, when they've gotten away with doing a lot of things that they shouldn't have done, it's because no one was looking.
00:10:06 Miriam: Like there wasn't a performance evaluation. There wasn't some sort of metric that we are holding these folks accountable to. And it was a lot of trust. There's a lot of trust there that led to some of these issues. And so I think, and even if you don't have that expertise, you can work with someone who does to say, how should I manage this particular role, how do I know if someone's being effective in this role? Right. And so you go outside of the organization to find folks that can help you understand how to manage it within the organization. If you don't have it on the board and you're not quite sure about the people that you have hired.
00:10:40 Maria: I find that, like the people most resistant to performance evaluations are often board members, EDs and senior management. So that always makes me feel a little bit icky because like we do that for our staff. Right. So why should we not also be evaluated, especially when you have the power to really influence the organizational strategy or finances future mission. So yeah, I think the evaluation piece performance review piece is so important, but there's so much pushback against it. And maybe that's going back to what you said earlier, like a change management piece, where people are slowly moved towards that. I don't know. What do you think?f
00:11:20 Miriam: Well part of it I think is that we, as leaders, should role, to model our role, like a model, what good leadership looks like, what it looks like to be held accountable. So it shouldn't be just that, you know, oh, I'm going to hold you accountable because you're my staff member, but I'm also held accountable. Like this is not just about me having control over staff. It's about all of us being held accountable so that we can do our best work. And I do feel like that's part of the issue too.
00:11:47 Miriam: So if you have, like a high turnover and you have staff members who say, well, you know, there are unfair practices here where I can't get away with anything, but I can see management, they're doing anything they wanna do. That's part of modeling, right? And so, no, none of us can do whatever we want to do. We all have a role to play in the organization and we all have to be held accountable. And being able to be a role model, to model that behavior, I think is vitally important for senior leadership.
00:12:12 Maria: When you come into an organization where, sorry, an organization where the operations are a complete mess, right? No one is being held accountable, programs are not being evaluated, possible fraud. What do you do in that scenario? Do you cry? Your job, run away, say good luck? Or like, where do you even start? Like, I don't know how to make that huge change.
00:12:34 Miriam: Well, the first step is that we do an organizational assessment. What we call, we have a very unique assessment because we're operations folks, but we do an operational, a cultural assessment. So we're looking at the culture of the operations that exist within the organization. And we're looking at key areas, right? So we might be looking at, well, not might, but we look at development, finance, HR, information systems. We look at risk and compliance. We look at governance and programs, right? So we look at these different areas within organizations because they exist in every one of them, right? It's not just the, because you know, sometimes you can go and you can assess an organization, like, well, we're different.
00:13:12 Miriam: Well, all of us, all of these nonprofit organizations should have these main components, whether they're a full-fledged department or someone's point of contact, right? There should be this functionality. So we look at that functionality, determine where's the fire burning the most. Because at the end of the day, you cannot have meaningful impact or change if everyone's running around on fire. So we have to figure out where's the fire coming from so we can put out some of the fires so that we have time to make meaningful change because at the end of the day, if no one in the organization ever has time to fix the problems and we keep putting band-aids on them, we're not going to get anywhere. And so that is our first step to conduct the assessment.
00:13:53 Miriam: The second step is, let's outline what strategies we need to employ to put out the fires. Once we can put out the fires, then we can go to the next level, if you will, of intervention, which is okay, so let's make… have a very methodical approach to what are the issues within these areas that we need to address. Sometimes you'll find that the issues are overarching and that there might be information systems issues that flow throughout the entire organization. We're still on paper. We still have a lot of issues with storage, where we store documents, how we access information, that sort of thing.
00:14:29 Miriam: And if you shore up the information systems piece, then that creates a lot of flexibility because maybe we have more automation, rather and we can actually start working on other areas of the organization just by attacking that one area. We try to be, to answer your question very directly, we try to be very methodical about it. We want to assess where the fire is burning the brightest, the hottest, and then sort of put that out so we can go on to other areas.
00:15:02 Maria: Yeah. And do you think the culture piece ends up becoming a really big part of the operational strategy or is it more of the logistical systems piece that becomes a big priority?
00:15:14 Miriam: So culture and there's someone who's, and I cannot think of his name right now, but I'm not going to get credit for saying this because I didn't come up with it, but they say culture will eat strategy for lunch, right? So if your culture is one that doesn't support new, if your culture has a lot of distrust, if your culture is one where, you know, we don't make decisions, not even not make them fast, we just don't make a lot of decisions. It doesn't matter what strategy we put in place because it'll never get done. And so we re brain culture front and center. So as part of our assessment, we're going to do an employee survey and we're going to ask questions on that survey about, you know, trust, do you trust senior leadership? Do you understand the financial health of your organization?
00:16:03 Miriam: We're going to ask those questions because we need to make sure that everyone is on the same board or on the same page with where the organization stands culturally. Because when we come up with, change management strategy, we have to address culture. So it's not just the logistics. So the difference between project management and change management, project management is more focused on the, what we need to do, right? To bring, you know, resolution or to, you know, get something done. Change management is about people. It's how do we get the people on board to do the work of project management or at least if they're not managing the project, being a part of the project moving forward.
00:16:39 Miriam: And so if we don't address cultural issues, then we'll never see the change that we wanna see. Or if we do see the change, it's very short-lived. And so we add that into the assessment for that reason, just because again, without addressing the culture, you'll never get strategy off the ground.
00:16:57 Maria: So I worked at a few places where the culture was not great, surprise, everybody listening. Some nonprofits are super toxic, you know? But yeah, so I worked at a few places where we've always done it that way mentality definitely creeped in and there was a lack of accountability at the board and senior leadership level that was causing huge levels of attrition, like 150% levels of attrition when it came to staff retention.
00:17:25 Maria: So that was really hard, but as a senior leader, as a director at the organization, I found it difficult to see how I could affect change at the organization. Since it seemed like so much of it was really heavy, do you have any advice for people like me or who might have been in that situation or in that situation of like how they can try to affect that change or should they just leave the organization?
00:17:51 Miriam: I think the best way to approach that would be one, if you know that there's toxic culture in that organization, and you have brought that to the senior leadership team, if they, A, say we understand that, we're working on it, we want to work on it, then you have an opportunity to work through it. But you have the B scenario, which is sort of this willful ignorance that it really doesn't exist here like you're saying. And in that case, there's not a lot you could do, you could run because the only thing that you'll do is beat your head against the wall. If there's no willingness to accept that there is a culture that is not good for the organization, it's not healthy, then there's really not a lot that can be done.
00:18:41 Maria: I don't understand why people willfully ignore some of these things. No matter how many exit interviews you get of staff being like, it's you, you're the problem. Like you are why I'm leaving. They just turn around and say, no, it's COVID. No, it's the great resignation. Oh no, they wanted more money, right?
00:18:58 Miriam: Yep.
00:18:58 Maria: And I don't understand how they kind of do these like mental gymnastics to get to that point.
00:19:05 Miriam: Well, you know, there's always, there are always different levels of self-awareness. And if you have… And like you said, there are a lot of organizations that struggle with accountability at the highest levels. So if there's no real accountability, there's definitely not gonna be self-awareness because how do you know? Like if you don't have those conversations that say, hey, we think you can grow in this area. Hey, we think you could do something better, something different. If those conversations aren't happening, you lose that ability to be made aware of how your actions impact the organization and you lose the ability to make those changes internally, right? You make those changes yourself.
00:19:46 Miriam: And so I think that that's a big reason why you have the willful ignorance. It's almost, you know, and I have to be careful how I say this, but it's almost like you can't help people who don't want to be helped, right? If they like the messiness, if they like the backbiting, if they like the griminess of how it is that management happens in their organization, there is nothing that anyone can do about that because they like it. You have to be uncomfortable to want to make a change. It has to be something that you feel ashamed of or not proud of, or feel like this is not the way that you'd want your organization to be run, your staff to be treated. You have to have something tugging at your heartstrings that says, this is not right. We need to do something different. Barring that kind of conviction and they like it. There is nothing you can do to make that, to turn that ship around.
00:20:43 Maria: Yeah. So at that point, it's better to find somewhere else.
00:20:47 Miriam: It's better to leave.
00:20:49 Maria: Yeah.
00:20:50 Miriam: Because what happens and I've, you know, I'm a witness to this. I've been there, done that. You get pulled into the drama too.
00:20:58 Maria: Oh yeah.
00:20:59 Miriam: And then you're stressed. Like we should all be able to do our best work. We should. Whether you are the leader of a nonprofit organization, whether you're a staff member of that organization, whether you're a consultant working for that organization, with that organization, we should all be able to do our best work. And anytime that you get put into an environment where you cannot do your best work, you probably should leave that environment instead of getting pulled down to do less than your best work. And so the sooner you can make that assessment, can I do my best work here? And I do believe that that's why we have the attrition that we have at the rate that we have within the nonprofit sector is because people come to work wanting to do their best work, because they believe in the mission, they believe in the vision of the organization, but they find that they cannot do their best work there.
00:21:42 Miriam: And they decide, I can do this somewhere else. How is it that we create an environment where we can do our best work? Whether that's in any particular area, fundraising development, general operations, governance, whatever it is, how can we position the organization in such a way where everyone who's working there feels as though they can do their best work. And when you find that, you find the best type of culture, right? Where, everyone's plugged in, they feel like, you know, their synergy there, they feel like they can, you know, climb mountains and just, you know, do the amazing things because they feel like they can do their best work there. And so when I, when, you know, my organization, my company, my folks, when we go into the… to an organization, we're trying to figure out, how can everyone do their best work.
00:22:27 Maria: I love that. It's… it seems overly simple, but it just captures a lot. It captures psychological safety and wanting to show up to work feeling motivated, not being burned out and trusting your leadership and being able to speak your mind when you see something that could be improved, whether it's a problem or just like a brand new idea. So I really love what you just said.
00:22:50 Miriam: Yeah, it's, you know, I will say that it is difficult when you do walk into an organization and you find that people are struggling to do even mediocre work.
00:23:02 Maria: Yeah, that's hard.
00:23:03 Miriam: At some point, no one, well, I shouldn't say no one, very few people apply for a new job and think, I'm gonna go here and do my mediocre work here.
00:23:15 Maria: Yeah, exactly.
00:23:17 Miriam: You know what I mean? So at some point, the word that comes to mind is kind of like the zest for life was like beaten out of them. At some point. And they're like, I'm just showing up because I don't want to leave them high and dry, but I don't feel like I can do my best work here. And to see that kind of transformation in an organization is powerful.
00:23:38 Maria: What about smaller to medium sized organizations who might have like, maybe it's just the ED, maybe it's the ED and like seven staff, how can they optimize their operations as much as possible?
00:23:50 Miriam: Automation, AI. When you have, and I run a small outfit, I've worked in corporate spaces that had, you know, several thousand staff members, you know, but I've also worked in very small organizations and anything in between. But when you have a very small organization, it is critical that you find opportunities to automate work whenever possible and outsource as much as you can. For example, if you don't have expertise in house for human resources, and you maybe have five or seven staff members, it's gonna, probably be more cost effective and time effective for you to outsource it to a PEO, a professional employment organization, right? Because then you're paying by the head, your payroll is included in that.
00:24:41 Miriam: Some of the HR pieces like onboarding of staff, and a lot of the paperwork that goes behind, payroll, taxes, and all that sort of thing, they're taking care of that for you so that you aren't spinning your wheels. I'm not an HR person trying to figure out HR. You have a partner in that with you. I use a PEO and it's been wonderful, right? You may want to look at consolidating certain things within your organization. So for example, when it comes to a workflow, let's say it's my client journey or client experience. I have so many systems that are connected to each other that flow automatically, or that talk to each other. So I don't have to do dual entry.
00:25:21 Miriam: So if I'm creating a contract, for example, and I have, and I'm not going to purport any particular software, I'm just going to tell you what I use, but I'm not going to sell you guys on anything, but I may have, you know, contract creation system, I use PandaDoc and it also talks to HubSpot because I have a CRM. But, you know, and I have QuickBooks and QuickBooks talks to my CRM and you know, you see what I'm saying? So there are so many ways that you can use systems and make sure they're integrated so that you aren't reinventing the wheel at every step. Now, you know, and this is the hard part. The hard part is knowing what you need.
00:25:57 Miriam: And so if you have someone that can kind of map certain things out for you, whether it's a business process or particular flow, it will give you an idea of what systems you want to use so that they, you know, you can find out if they talk to each other so that you can enter into one system and it automatically maybe have some, we call it automations that will run for you in the background. So you're not having to again, reinvent the wheel or do double work or do dual entry. And so those pieces, I think, expand your capacity beyond having another FTE. So outsourcing HR is one piece of that. Outsourcing, maybe bookkeeping is something that you don't want to, necessarily do in-house and you don't have someone who can do that. Maybe you focus on the program delivery because that's something that no one else can do for you.
00:26:39 Miriam: So you focus on program delivering, have those FTEs in-house, but it's a lot of the administrative work. If you can, outsource that. And then of course, even with program delivery, if there's a software solutions that keep you from either writing on paper or, and/or having documents that can't be shared and they live on someone's laptop and you gotta wait for them to send it to you. Those kinds of things are time wasters and drainers. And so looking at all of those things, I think it's very helpful and vitally important for a small outfit.
00:27:11 Maria: While you're talking, I find it hard to imagine one person having all this expertise, right? So like knowing the kind of systems that the finance person is gonna need versus community members, are coming in and they need something that I need to set up versus the board wants everything tracked in one spot when it comes to the financial statements so they can access them. So I can see maybe the ED being the person responsible for it, which poor ED, no. But it sounds a little bit of, like, a team effort. So everybody, coming together and sharing their expertise and where they can help each other out. So really not siloed which is really nice.
00:27:53 Miriam: Yeah, because you think about it, I was working with the organization not too long ago and we were coming up with a tech strategy for the organization. This is a very common scenario. So it's not necessarily just native to this organization, but a very common scenario where there's a lot of duplication of effort. So, not even in the software, but sometimes in the hardware. So we have Mac and we have Windows based computers. Well, why do that? Because some of our staff like this and some of them like that. This was like, oh, but then now you have to have different support systems because you have different hardware, right? And then it's like, oh, we use Dropbox and we use SharePoint and we use Google Drive, right? It's like, but one of those systems would do what the others are doing. Why do you do that?
00:28:40 Miriam: Oh, because when we first started, we were using Dropbox, but then we realized that Google Drive might be better. Then SharePoint came out. We're going to try to consult it and use all of the, you know, move to SharePoint. But it was like, we never got there. So now it's like, well, where's this stored? We don't really know. We have to go digging for it. Right. We were using BlackBaud and now we, you know, and, but before we were, we are using BlackBaud now, but before we're using another development kind of software, CRM software, and we still have information, old one, but we have some in a new one, but we haven't consolidated that yet, right?
00:29:14 Miriam: So you're looking at all these different systems, all these different approaches, and it's spanning the entirety of your administrative staff because everyone's feeling it. They're feeling the burn.
00:29:26 Maria: Yeah.
00:29:26 Miriam: Of having so much of a hodgepodge of different sources of information, different software applications, different hardware. And when you're able to come together and say, what's the best solution for the organization, not for me individually, then we can all get on the same team and have even more productivity because we're not losing it in just trying to sort out who's got what and who's on first.
00:29:58 Maria: I love that. So simple, just stick to one system.
00:30:03 Miriam: But you know, those are things that again, I totally understand what it looks like to start grassroots, right? You just, you know, start from what you have with who you have. And then as you gain momentum, as your organization grows, you start adding the pieces that make life easier at that time. Well, one of the sayings we have here at 180 Management Group is growth puts pressure on your existing systems. There comes a time when you've grown significantly and what used to work just does not work anymore. And that's sort of our niche. That’s our strong suit, we come in when organizations are growing and they need to transform and they don't know where to start.
00:30:41 Miriam: And we have to map out the plan that says, this is where you are, this is current state, this is where you wanna be, this is future state, this is the gap. How do we get to the future state? And that helps with turning that organization around, transforming it, making it scalable for what's coming in the future. And yes, it does hit on most every area of the operation, but again, operations is sort of the wheel that keeps it going, right?
00:31:09 Maria: Oh yeah.
00:31:10 Miriam: It's the wheel that turns that keeps the organization moving.
00:31:12 Maria: Yeah. And you're right. There's so many organizations that are building the plane as they're flying it, and that doesn't usually yield the best results that you would want or that you are capable of achieving with the people and resources that you have available to you right now.
00:31:26 Miriam: Right now, exactly.
00:31:28 Maria: Yeah. Like you don't have to grow your team or invest a lot of money to clean up your current systems most of the time. Like, it's just about standardizing and building accountability into what you already currently have. So that's really interesting.
00:31:42 Miriam: Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, I totally get it. When you start, and again, this could be 25 years ago and now you're just at the point where you're like, you know, over the last 25 years, we've done so many things and it's great. And you've seen a lot of growth, but you were doing all the things and you're putting a lot of band aids. And you were just getting done what needs to be done at that point in time. And at some point, and I feel like, when it comes to nonprofit organizations, there's this culture that exists industry-wide, right? In the sector that you shouldn't spend a certain amount of money, because I think that was sort of looked frowned upon spending, certain amount of money over, I think it's 30% on administration, right? Administrative services, I think, is it 30? Might be 20. But whatever that number is, really put people in a tailspin because you're trying to do the most off of the least.
00:32:39 Maria: Yeah.
00:32:41 Miriam: And so that's why you have a hodgepodge because this was the most inexpensive way of getting it done at the time.
00:32:48 Maria: So true.
00:32:48 Miriam: And so you did what you had to do to make it work. That pressure doesn't go anywhere. However, how you respond to it will make the difference. If you begin to say, understand I need to have whatever the most cost-effective product there is out there right now, well, make sure you've done your due diligence on that product. Can it grow with you so that as you get to the point where you need that next level package, if you will, of service or product or whatever it is, you don't have to go and just add on something that didn't match anything else you had.
00:33:23 Maria: Yeah.
00:33:24 Miriam: Right. And so there's a… that pressure of performing and doing the most with the least I think will still be there because it's embedded in the culture of the nonprofit sector. But that doesn't mean that you have to be frantic and it doesn't mean that you have to make decisions in a way that's going to impact your future because the resources are so scarce in your present. There's a way to work through that. But I don't think that many nonprofit leaders feel like they have the time, the energy, or the space to get that done.
00:33:57 Maria: I was just thinking about that. Like the time cause I’ve definitely been guilty of hodgepodging things together, right? So there was this website and an organization that I worked at that literally had not been updated in probably like 30 years. It was horrible.
00:34:13 Miriam: Wow.
00:34:14 Maria: And it was on WordPress. So I'm like, okay, how do I make WordPress work for me?
00:34:19 Miriam: Mm-hmm.
00:34:19 Maria: So I got a elementor, like this front end website builder and like made it work. But then it also, like, wasn't able to function as well as I wanted it to like three or four years later because it was still on this superstructure custom made WordPress design that I didn't know the front end looked good. Like the back end was still dog poo. So it was really hard to move it ahead. But it was the fastest at the time.
00:34:51 Miriam: At the time.
00:34:52 Maria: Yeah. The least time consuming and money consuming thing that I could do. So it really makes a lot of sense.
00:34:58 Miriam: Oh, and you know, again, this is no slight against having to really do whatever it takes to get the job done, right? No slight against that. I recently, I guess it was in, at the beginning, this is 2023. In 2022, I had to put together a plan for business development, right? Because as you know, a small outfit when it was just me, I couldn't do all the things. I couldn't serve the client and be my own business development staff and do all the things that make business work. And so I was sort of forced to put together a business development strategy and plan that included more than just me. All right. So I had to kind of step out in faith and say, I've got to put some resources aside because this is going to help the organization grow. If I don't make this, take this step, this next step in faith, I may just be stuck here.
00:35:53 Miriam: And so I put together this strategy, which included hiring a part-time FTE. Now, initially it was just the outsource for a few hours, but as business grew, I knew it needed to go to a part-time FTE because outsourcing works up to a point. Right. When you know you have consistent hours that need to be worked, then you need to go into, you know, part-time folks in, maybe eventually full-time. So I was working through this business development strategy and it was intense because I didn't have a CRM that was expansive enough to do what I believe the strategy called for. Well, I had to have someone build it. Like I needed someone who can be the architect because I'm not, that's not me. So I got someone to build out the CRM the way I needed. I negotiated with the software company to get a package that could do what I needed it to do without paying for all the things I didn't need. I got someone to, you know, staffing wise to sort of run this process.
00:36:50 Miriam: And a year in, I've increased our speaking because we are also speakers as well. So we'll facilitate workshops, we'll do keynotes and all that sort of thing. We've increased our speaking opportunities by 500%. And it was because we had to go in by faith and spend some money to get a return so that we can continue to grow. And so often, and I understand that there are, you know, there's sort of a, the culture doesn't lend itself in the nonprofit sector to folks using money to grow in certain areas of operations. But the return, if you have a low turnover rate, because people have this, the systems that they need, the tools to do their job, right? If there is some semblance of peace within the workplace, because we have, you know, a good plan of action and we are all moving toward it in a way that's succinct, right? Those things are, return on investment that you will see. And so it's not just about what you spend, it's about what you don't lose.
00:37:58 Maria: Love that. Yes, like the peace of mind and the burnout and all these like less tangible benefits that have really exponential gains for the organization.
00:38:09 Miriam: Exactly. And even the financial gain, their actual tangible financial gains, right? So you did spend the money, but because you've lowered your turnover rate, the attrition, then you kept the institutional knowledge, one, which is, it's sort of intangible, but two, you don't have to pay for that recruiter or that onboarding or the time that was lost and making up for it somehow or another. Right. Cause those are real numbers that we can attribute to attrition. And so the investment into the administrative operations of the organization have a real benefit, a return on investment that if you decide not to make it, you continue to go down a path that's not healthy.
00:38:57 Maria: Say it louder. Yeah, for sure.
00:39:03 Miriam: So yeah, it was quite the journey. Again, a lot of it was faith, but it wasn't faith without strategy and wisdom, right? But it is still, you know, it's okay to go against the grain. Can I say that today?
00:39:21 Maria: Yes.
00:39:21 Miriam: It is okay to go against the grain just because everyone else is doing it that way doesn't mean your organization has to do it that way. And what if you're a trailblazer and you begin to see gain and gains in your organization, you begin to have an impact that is obviously more than what you've had before. And people want to know now what it is that you're doing. Be the trailblazer. Do the thing that no one else is doing and have the impact that no one else can have.
00:39:50 Miriam: And I think that we forget that sometimes because we get so stuck in, well, if I do it this way, then they're gonna say we're not managing our resources the right way, or they're gonna say that we're spending too much doing this. But when you have the outcomes that they don't have, then they're gonna be asking you, what did you do? So don't be afraid to be the trailblazer.
00:40:13 Maria: Love it. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Miriam. For people who wanna hear more about what you do and how you do it, how can they connect with you?
00:40:22 Miriam: Well, we try to leverage LinkedIn as much as we possibly can. So if we have any kind of webinars or any kind of lunch and learns or any resources that we have available for 180 Management Group, you can find us on LinkedIn. You can find me, Miriam Perryman Dicks, I think is my name on LinkedIn. I should know, but I think that's it.
00:40:43 Maria: It's okay. We'll link it in the show notes. You should know your name though.
00:40:47 Miriam: I should know my name on LinkedIn.
00:40:49 Maria: You should know.
00:40:50 Miriam: So, but Miriam Dicks, I think is what's out there. You can definitely connect with me there. You can connect with our company page, 180 Management Group page on LinkedIn. But if you want to connect with us, like have an initial conversation or consultation or anything like that, you can go to our website. It's 180managementgroup.com. So 180 Management Group, all spelled out, dot com. And you can definitely hook up with, you know, any of our consultant team, whether it's for speaking or for leadership or for operations consulting, we'll be glad to talk to you and see what we can do to help.
00:41:24 Maria: That's amazing. Well, thank you again, Miriam. And thank you all for tuning into this episode. I hope that you learned something that you can implement at your organization today. And thank you so much for joining us. Bye for now.
00:41:40 Maria: Thank you for listening to another episode of The Small Nonprofit. If you want to continue the conversation, feel free to connect with our guests directly or find me on LinkedIn. Let's keep moving money to mission and prioritizing our well-being. Bye for now.
